Deponia 4?

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Haravikk
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Haravikk » Sa 7. Feb 2015, 21:32

I think it's pretty clear we could do with a Deponia 4, or some kind of small Elysium game to try to clear some of this up; put us in charge of some of the other characters as they try to resolve what happens in the ending. Could be fun actually to play as two different groups of characters, since the Deponia rebels must have made it Elysium as well if Cletus does, since they were aboard the ship at the time. Maybe have Rufus' death be something that's being investigated, I dunno.

But yeah, as PLyczkowski says, the ending doesn't give any real confirmation or closure which makes it hard to accept. A game on Elysium wouldn't necessarily have to be as long as previous games, just resolve some of a lot of the stuff that's left hanging for no good reason.

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Babayaga
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Babayaga » So 15. Feb 2015, 01:12

Been over a year since I originally posted here. I still feel cheated. I've enjoyed all the followup conversations. Someone mentioned the ending being "bitter sweet", but if it was, I would have liked the ending, or at least appreciated it. Instead it just felt sloppy, unemotional, and rushed.

I reluctantly recommend the game to the spattering of adventure gamers I know, but I always have to let them know, "You will NOT like the ending. It's an amazing and imaginative ride. Then you abruptly crash into an embankment and never get to watch the sunset."

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Orties
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Orties » Mi 6. Mai 2015, 22:16

Krazyguy75 hat geschrieben:My problem with the ending is the lack of demonstrated character development.

If Rufus' were to die, his death should have lasting ripples throughout all of Deponia, all of Elysium, and all the people he met.

We get to see Rufus' supposed death, and we see goal and Cletus go to Elysium. But even that lacks development.

I'm fine with Rufus' fate being left unknown. I'm fine with him never making it to Elysium.

However, here's what my ending would've added:

When asked to impersonate Rufus', Cletus should have argued, and then Goal should have said something along the lines of "Do it for Rufus", whereupon Cletus' expression should soften, look at goal, and say, "Fine, I'll do it. It'll be my last favor to him."

A scene should exist where Toni hears of Rufus' death, picks his coat off the ground, and cries, while Rufus' other friends gather around her and try to comfort her.

Cletus, as "Rufus" should give a rallying speech on the improvement of the planet, and turning the planet habitable again. He should convince the Organon the help rebuild the world from the trash it has become.

Hermes should look up at Elysium, framed by sunset, and smile at the sight of the ships coming down to help rebuild the planet. Then he should look at the cloning facility and walk away, blast doors sealing it off behind him, with a line akin to "The world doesn't need more heroes. Thank you, Rufus'. Thank you for providing us with hope."

At the very end, when Goal looks towards the horizon sadly, Cletus should walk up next to her, and put his arm around her, comfortingly, but not in a way indicative of a lover, as the look into the distance.

This would be character development for Cletus, who shows that he can care for others, that he is willing to repay his debts, and that he is willing to work together with others to build a better future. It would further develop Toni, as even though Rufus annoyed her to no end, she was still his ex-girlfriend, and I doubt she really wished for Rufus' to die. It would show that Hermes regained his hope, and would show that Rufus' is no longer needed. It would even help add personality to every character in the game, showing that Rufus' impact helped unite cultures, and that the Organons can do good deeds, and that even the people of Deponia who had previously hated him can see that he was a good person, and a hero, in the end.



Hermes is dead. And everyone but Goal literally hated Rufus' guts. I get what you're saying, don't misunderstand, but most of those guys probably wouldn't be that sad. He was an absolute wankbag to everyone but Goal. Toni didn't even have problems killing Rufus herself with a bit of provocation.

The Cletus and Goal interaction seems possible, but even then it just seems like Goal is quilt tripping him without him realising that she probably knows. No one else ever seemed to make the distinction between Rufus and Cletus so for them Rufus is still good as alive and the one who gave his life was Cletus.

I would like to see some closure and development for Goal in a game set on Elysium. We know it's going to come crashing down at some point or run out of resources unless they set off for Utopia. Would make for an interesting setup and Poki wouldn't even have to go back on his conviction to not continue Rufus' story.

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Alex/AT
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Alex/AT » Sa 5. Sep 2015, 20:58

I'll be overly critical (lost 41+ hours just to meet the ending), and will just recite some people from here adding some opinion:

Deponia ending is not failure as in some major f**kups...

But it's still a major f**ckup. It's not a matter of bad/tragic or unexpected ending. It's a matter of all the plot having no meaning at all in the end. And it's not just for the ending. All the climax/afterclimax/outcome - complete finale of a story - is poor, after we get green liquid to repair Goal, the story goes awry and screws up completely (going in circles via tubes, dictophone and elevator mess included). Too plain. Too dull. Too simple. Too disappointing. It really seems as if scenery writer or entire team encountered some problems during writing last phases of story, and that stopped them from doing anything decent.

It leaves you with a genuine sense of <write your variant>...

It just leaves you with a genuine sense of time lost for nothing, and nothing else in general. Due to that people criticizing Goodbye Deponia really do have a reason/point.

But it's what author/artist/whoever planned. It's as desired. You just got your expectations too high. It's life. Not everything goes as you desire.

The primary thing is that it is a story in the first place. And story should be well told, otherwise it's all for nothing. Being 'artistic' is no excuse there. It can be sad, tragic, well, even the same, but it can be very well done story, and not a load of gibberish. It completely ruins the game :(

sloppy, unemotional, and rushed

very poorly executed

Yup. Imagine reading a full scale book, then another, then one more, and then hitting nonsensical ending wrapped up just on five or six pages, and you'll understand what almost everyone's talking about. And P&C adventures are books.

---

Although: the series itself (well, 2 first games) are excellent, and I'm quite sure if a resolving sequel is out... Well, even if just the finale is redone, it'll already sell again. So it's all in your hands, Daedalic. Don't leave all the story fans in permanent state of disappointment out there. Please.

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Alex/AT
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Alex/AT » So 6. Sep 2015, 07:10

I was thinking about what more or less normal open finale could really be and came to the following. This is not a suggestion to somehow make anything 'better'. It's just a 'what if' that came to mind.

1. First Rufus gets the green liquid to mature Goal. An animation of what happens to children should be there, with dialogue between monsters again. Otherwise, it's completely unclear what happened.

2. Second Rufus enters hideout, and has a dialogue about how he has screwed up. No changes.

3. Third Rufus screws up. No crap about Goal being alive and on ascension station, codes backup, etc. - this completely ruins the game mood and makes it all for naught. No. He just gets shot down, cartridge extracted from him, and then thrown overboard.

4. First Rufus now needs to retrieve Goal. The exit from pipe room should be blocked by monster, and pipes should have some way to reach Goal's jail. After reaching Goal's jail, whirlpool exit should be used. So first and second Rufuses unite, and Goal is in the bucket nearby.

5. Resistance gets a call from Cletus that Rufus is dead, codes are at his hands, and wishing them happy stay. This causes another screwup reaction. Platform begins to move up. Seagull goes psycho and tries to shoot Goal with his weapon. Second Rufus sacrifices himself protecting Goal, while others tie Seagull down. Dying, second Rufus tells Seagull it was his fault mother has died. First Rufus mourns holding second in his hands. Tears, whatever.

6. Now only first Rufus and Goal remain. He uses green liquid. No Goal-to-Donna transformation crap there because this ruins the game for the second time, making everything in previous chapters meaningless. Goal and Rufus reunite. Tears, whatever.

7. But they are screwed up and need a plan. Instead of walking through everyone for two full circles, Rufus remembers about plasma-whatever thingy he has stolen from bot in the hotel. This also makes all the hotel part meaningful. Doc says he can use that to make force field to protect something from the most severe damage, but only for a few seconds. A plan comes up: protect the truck and fire it to the platform.

8. Then it continues as it is until we all get to the rotor. Once all three get on rotor, it stops. Goal enters platform here.

9. Rufus jumps down first ('- Live, Goal, live... - WUT?'), but at the last moment manages to grab ladder he recovered transmitter with and stays alive. Still, rotor is not working.

10. Argus says that he has 11000 soldiers onboard, and uses his antenna piece to try to restart rotor. Rotor is restarted, but Argus is electrocuted to death (harsh and meaningless sacrifice). Rotor starts, Cletus is thrown out to the platform, and then rotor stops again. Prime Controller says engine is damaged and escape operation begins.

11. Cletus tries to disguise him self as Rufus (dialogue), but Goal clearly distinguishes between the two (no 'Who is Rufus' crap making her look dumb, she already can distinguish them clearly). Then he says that there is no time to rescue Rufus and that Goal should get out of here. That pisses her off, and she kills him with her own hands (harsh), kicking him out of the platform. Then she tries to pull Rufus up, father helps her here.

12. They escape, and it all continues to the point they talk with government. Government says they are all screwed up completely now (Deponia is inhabited, no resources, unstable orbit, and therefore they'll all have to land on Deponia and live there before they hatch a new plan to get out to Utopia). 'Maybe you can offer us some plan?'

13. And then both Goal/Rufus go out to the balcony and sigh. End of story.


That could be (of course, in my opinion only) much better than it's now, will still be harsh enough, but won't ruin the whole game mood, still leaving everything open.

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diGriz
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon diGriz » Do 17. Sep 2015, 11:56

Don't want to argue with anyone's oppinion. But for the creators to think:

With so much love and hope were made and played all 3 chapters (I mean the feeling you have - playing it) and the only 2 last videos crossed out all that feelings...
Now think how many people and even KIDS were playing Deponia and how many hearts were broken on a last few minutes...
You made people to belive that you've ceated the FAIRY TALE and not the thriller or the instructive story...

Nearly on every language you can find forums and topics about that it couldn't be the truth and asking for a new chapters.
And few days ago found the 1st chapter for IOS, now you'll get more money and more fans that nearly all will be upset after that trilogy.

I'm not sure that all who played deponia will want to play the new games of Daedalic, really most people told that they better not finish the 3d part... not to see that ending.

And more - maybe some other people (fans) will make the sequel, like it was made for lot other games with strange endings or even without them, I want to believe in this and better pay them for it.

P.S.
Sorry for my "perfect" english, hope you understood what I wanted to say.

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Error 404
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Error 404 » Mi 30. Sep 2015, 23:02

I agree that the story is incomplete, but I understand the developers (next to them): yeah, you didn't want to finish the story banal happy-end, but if you wanted to make a tragedy, it was necessary to finish the job. Rufus falls from Elysium and dies, Goal understands that it is not Rufus, her overcomes sense of guilt and she jumps down from the Elysium. Then Elysium falls on Porta-Fisco and causes a huge wave in the sea, which covers the Floating Black Market and this island, where always raining (I don't know its name in English, in Russian it is Вхарюдам).
But with this ending, the story looks incomplete and needs a sequel.

A minute for stupid ideas:
Maybe the developers specifically say anywhere that the sequel will not. Imagine: open up steam and see in new products the fourth Deponia, for no apparent reason released by developers.

Yeah, it was really stupid idea.

P.S.: I'm sorry for my "perfect" translation.

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Iodine
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Iodine » Sa 24. Okt 2015, 10:09

I really love the Deponia trilogy and especially the characters. The ending made me cry, but the fact that everything had such loose ends gives the opportunity to believe whatever you want. Perhaps Poki encourages people to write their own continuation fanfics?

It makes me sad that people play this game and when they reach the end they say it was a complete waste of their time. You can't say you had any enjoyment out of playing Deponia? For Rufus, it wasn't the destination that mattered, but the journey to get there. The reason he jumped was because he knew that once he reached Elysium, the very drive of his existence would be over, and if he let Cletus die, he would be no better than him in the end.

There's actually a Deponia Pen and Paper RPG book that covers all the world of Deponia and it might answer a lot of questions, but unfortunately it's only in German and you can't purchase it if you're not in the correct region. I hope one day that an English .pdf version will be released.

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Galdring
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Galdring » So 25. Okt 2015, 19:36

Hello,

I just want to chime in here for one, simple fact:
Daedalic honestly doesn't do "Happy Endings", for the most part. Think Edna & Harvey (both parts), think Chains of Satinav (okay, Memoria was a tiny bit happy ending)... So this is very much in-line with our regular approach. ;)

Apart from that, I find it very interesting that even after this time (I mean: it's been out a while) people are still so invested in this discussion (and the German one, as well) about the trilogy's ending. It sparked a lot of interest from the community and left quite some questions, but maybe, just maybe: Might this be exactly what it wanted to do? ;)

There are lots of What-ifs, lots of could've, should've, would've, but in the end, as Poki, the game's lead designer stated: This was the ending he was aming for.

Think about it this way (and this is my personal opinion): What Rufus did in the end was the only selfless deed he ever did, and he did it to save everyone. Isn't that an ending then, that makes you think? I mean - it did, obviously, but it takes some emotional attachment to think this much about an ending. Which, from my point of view, only works when stories are well-written.
Then again, I'm obviously a bit biased *coughs* ;)

Just my personal statement,
Galdring
Community Moderator
Daedalic Entertainment

Vielleicht habe ich deinen Schlüssel gefunden, Schnutzipu...

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Iodine
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Re: Deponia 4?

Beitragvon Iodine » So 25. Okt 2015, 22:58

I've played a lot of Square Enix games, so I'm used to tragic endings. :cry:

If the ending brought you to tears, then Poki did a good job writing the story. Fans who get upset and brought to tears over a character's death means they've become emotionally attached to the character, and that's quite a feat for an egomaniac like Rufus to achieve that. Him sacrificing himself is his only saving grace and it just wouldn't have the same impact on his character if he hadn't jumped.


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